I believe in evolution, there are more facts supporting it.

Yah, me to. You pretty much summed it up.

I whole heartedly agree with you two?! waaa!

I like to believe that Gods evolved with life

I believe God Created life through the use of Evolution.

What an intellectual discussion...lol.

I believe science created life with evolution

Hmm.. I don't understand this topic T_T

I believe in Evolution since It seem more logical.

Evolution, i don't believe in god.

Intelligent Design. Regardless, why are people still hung up on how we came to be? Just keep moving forward and make your own future. Don't establish it on religion or science. -.-

One believing in creation can say almost the same thing. If he takes "God created man" as a fact, then you will not be able to prove him wrong, since any fact you bring up as an argument will contradict his and will be invalid in his eyes. Its like telling someone that 2+2=5. This is also why many other arguments (particularly on the internet) are so fruitless.

I know this wasn't what you were getting at, but the past is what makes us who we are. Only looking toward the future can cause trouble. Why do you think history is a required course in high school?

You do realize this is a horrible topic to bring up on forums? Causes controversies. -_-

Creation. I'm a Christian and I believe in God and the Bible all the way.

On that note, evolution should be a hypothesis, not a theory. -_- To be honest, they can't prove evolution at all, but ehh, whatever. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut now.

See previous post:

You're right that my statement was too condensed. I meant to say that defining one based on developmental origins in regards to humanity's creation is irrelevant, as individual action in the present is what really defines us.

In short, enough obsessing over whether we came from monkeys or God. Analyze what actions occurs, how they had an impact, and make a rational decision that helps out everyone. The past doesn't define us, but understanding what works and what doesn't by past actions help things progress.

I agree. You really can't change another person's opinion on Creation vs Evolution. Each one of us has their own ideas. Instead of thinking about how life started, maybe we should focus on how we can make this life better for everyone?

Nor is there proof of God.

There's no proof for either, which is why this is in the "Intellectual Discussion" section. There is no definitive answer at the moment.

I believe in evolution, simply because within the context of biology, and Darwinism, it makes a lot of sense. The concepts coincide, and seem to be plausible. Heck, humanity is still evolving as it is. We're MUCH taller now than we were millenia ago.

My lack of a belief in creationism doesn't have to do with religion, but more with physics. You can't just "create" matter. Matter exists infinitely.

QFT.

You put my thoughts much better than I could. :)

okay, this may offend a few people

You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. "I believe God created me in one day" Yeah, looks liked He rushed it

Bill Hicks

I believe in creationism because evolution just doesn't answer my questions. Sure a bird can grow some more feathers to fit for its environment but when you are struggling with personal problems and other things, those feathers won't to crap.

Maybe not, but your God isn't going to descend from heaven and help you with those personal problems either, now is he?

I'm not saying that necessarily to bash your beliefs, only to point out that I'm in kind of the same boat, but when I begged God for help with my personal problems (this was well before I became an atheist, though a large part of the reason for that), he did absolutely NOTHING.

I believe in evolution because creationism just doesn't answer my questions. The idea of god is farfetched. and doesn't provide proof

Anybody ever thought that both possibilities together could be possible?
Somebody/thing created life and lets it evolve, so one doesn't really rule out another (unless you look at creation myths literally of course)

As for me I believe in evolution because of things like increase in brain capacity observed within the same species over 100.000's of years.

What Shiro mentioned is called Intelligent Design. It's a combination of evolutionary theory and creationism. Personally, this sounds reasonable to me.

Evolution doesn't provide a reason on why the earth was made.

Evolution is about life, not planetary development. That is provided by a relatively simply aspect of Physics known as gravity.

That is not Intelligent Design. Intelligent Design is the assertion that the world is so complex and intricate that it must be created by God. Its the same exact thing as Creationism but with a more "scientific" name.

In my opinion, it's pseudoscience. Evolution is backed up by factual evidence. Creationism/Intelligent Design is backed up by faith. Faith is something you don't need evidence for or even logic for that matter. Because God can do anything inside and outside time, know your fate but somehow you have free will (something I still can't understand), and all these other weird contradictions and supernatural things, it takes some faith to believe in Creationism/ID/whatever.

Evolution, on the other hand, is based on evidence; and if there is an overwhelming evidence against evolution, the scientific community would evaluate the evidence and change it.

Heres how I see things...

Do I believe in 'God' as the major religions discribe him? ... No

'Holy' scripts and such are written by men who have changed it to suite themselves and the world in which they lived, the original message my have had the best intentions but as with most things, time is a corruptive force.

If by 'God' you mean the immense energies that exist in the universe in which we are but minute pecks in the cosmos in comparision then yes.

as for creation...

the creation story is nonsense.

Evolution takes millions of years to take its course, not seven days.

and has anyone considered this?

If God is eternal, why rush?

If someone said to me "God took several million years to create life.", i'd actually accept that, why does it say 7 days? is it to make god look 'better' somehow? or is the apocalypse going to take 7 days too?

on a lighter note, I have made myself one promise.

I'll believe in God without a doubt if I ever survive being struck by lightning... to be that unlucky I' must have reallly p***ed him off.



l

Creation all the way.
Just the fact that we are talking about what method of coming into existance proves it to me; humans are able to think about a higher power, ponder over what something symbolizes, appreciate beauty, and can kill each other for no reason other than religion.

Not a good thing, but you don't see animals looking at a sunrise with awe, nor do you see an animal hating another of its species without even meeting it.

Maybe instead of evolution, we should call it de-evolution; animals seem so much smarter than we are if you think about it.

Animals smarter than us?

on an instictive level probably, some certainly possess better memory than us but truely smarter, I doubt it.

Religion is the cause of most (not all) wars. Humans (like animals) naturally like joining groups wither it be a street gang or a mass religion, it gives them a sense of protection, unitity and purpose but it creates a pathetic "our god is better than yours" mentality that predjudices them against all others = hence conflict.

this is one of great faults of humanity and a bad one considering "man was created in gods image".

Animals of the same species kill each other for same reasons we do: mates, territory, food, survival of the species (or certain ideals).

And if thinking of the method of how we came into existance confirms "Creation" then why isn't the creation story take over millions of years like Evolution does?

Wait. When did an orangutan spear someone through the head just because he followed a different idealogy? I've seen no evidence that shows animals killing due to beliefs. Hunger? Yes. Territory? Most definitely. Survival of the species? If you've seen a mother bear defend her cubs, absolutely. Sex? Don't even answer. But there's no evidence of animals creating complex economic and abstract structures from scratch. Try hand signing to a gorilla who has been taught that about the intricacies of commerce, and the damned thing will shrug its shoulders.


And about intelligent design: Whoops! I might've been thinking about something else then. People get hung up about too many damn theories, instead of moving forward...

Im evolutionist, however people who tend to go both extremes take this too far.

Normally the people who take the Bible in extreme as the only book, hell Im Catholic and im aware about the fact that this Book has been written by people 2000 years ago, people who may or may not have been inspired by God, the bible it's a religious and a moral book, not a scientific one.

Also it's very people centered, when they say He created the world in seven days most people think in regular days, but putting it in a higher level, a day for God could be millions of years to us.

If you say he created us of the nothing, then why we are in constant evolution, all living beings are constantly evolving, adapting to their enviroment and all.

Let's take the appendage as a example:

It's a useless piece of tissue that hangs on one side of our Colom, it has no use, but it can kill you if the apendicites becomes into peritonitis, however theres some theories that this may come from distant ancestors that where herbivore and needed a second stomach to diggest the food.

And the Evolution never, never stated that God didn't exist.


That's my point of view of these issue, I respect all of yours.

I'm christian, though I do beleive in St. Augustine's philosophy that God meant for evolution to take place with his help.

GOD FTW. :D

But then again, sometimes there can be practical applications to theoretical sciences. Take, for example, the model of the atom. While it couldn't have had much immediate beneficial effect, understanding the structure of the atom has helped scientists make better materials, a lot of which has beyond a doubt improved our quality of life.

On-topic, I believe in evolution.

Even as a moral book, though, it's sadly outdated and frighteningly bigoted.

when i said 'ideals' in brackets, i meant to add 'in the case of humans'.

didn't realise i hadn't typed it till just now XD.

If life took millions of years to evolve and not 7 days then God exists in my version of the universe ^^

Another version of events that i find to my liking is that when God created the universe, he created it to function within certain peramiters and then just set it in motion and let it be. I think this is similar to what Misha-San was talking about.

I agree with both you Ste and Misha-san there.


The seven days is a methaphora (spell), it was written that way so the man of that time (2000 years ago) could assimilate the content much easier than if you said it took millions of years.


Now putting it aside on other aspect.

For God 7 days, it could be millions of years. we are talking of a Being that is out of time and space here.

I agree totally with Doomsayer. -.-

Exactly what I've said about divine beings. Since they're on a higher plane of existence, laws that govern time and reality don't apply. This has been shown in mythology and other religions that have passed and that are still here. And Stetekai's statement on God's modus operandi is similar to how I view reality. As for religious documents, just take the bare essentials. Things like "thou shalt not kill" and "thou shalt not bear false witness", even if you aren't religious, are good standards to follow, and are aspects of a caring, virtuous person. Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean you shouldn't have standards for your actions and the actions of others.