What is your opinion on firearms? Do you believe they have helped us, or do you think we'd be better off without them?

Obviously I think guns are stupid, imagine how much more peaceful we'd be without their creation.

I think they can be useful for protecting people, but they can just as easily end lives. I don't think ordinary people should be allowed to own weapons.

Me too...
Lets just say I am always near a self-defense object...whether that be a gun or my 7-month old, 100+ lb. mastiff, :lol:

I'm not going to wait for a cop to show up half an hour after I have been robbed or shot...I'm goin' to make the "would-be suspect" think twice about robbing me.
And if someone does try to rob me as I'm walking my dog or if someone breaks into my house, I won't stop my dog from ending the robbers life untill I know both me and my dog are 100% safe.

Thats just the way I work..

The reason for murders and violence is from people, not guns. Guns are just the weapons of choice for some. If there weren't any guns around, people would just use knives, crossbows, and swords like it was before firearms existed.

But yeah, I don't really care much for guns. I don't see the point in hunting either, but that's just me. I wouldn't try to convince a hunter that guns are wrong or anything.

And what about spears, throwing knifes, clubs, battle axes, & catapults?? :lol:
Now that would be sweet...lol

I've actually done some research involving the effect of gun control on crime in several nations. Here are some data comparing the amount of guns to gun-related homicides in a nation.

In 1999, 39 percent of households in the United States had a gun in them. There were 3.72 (per 100,000) gun-related homicides in that year.

Norway suffered only 0.30 homicides a few years earlier, a number well under that of the United States. Yet 32 percent of households in Norway had a gun, only 7 percent less than US households.

Similar statistics are evident in France with 22.6 percent of households with guns and only 0.44 gun-related homicides. Canada has roughly the same amount of guns as the US, but only a 5th of the amount of crime.

So what does this mean? According to these statistics, the amount of guns a nation owns has no effect on the amount of gun-related crimes in that nation. No correlation is evident in fact between guns and crime. Therefore, stricter gun control laws will be a futile attempt to curb crime in a nation.[1]

In essence, the data prove that if America got rid of half its guns, it would not get rid of half its crime. In fact, in would probably remain the same.

I’d also like to point out that according to PBS.org, a “large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts.” Stricter gun control laws will simply not hinder criminals - they will still be able to easily obtain a gun.

But the legal guns help us, they are a good thing! “Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 per day...Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminals) is shed." "Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes per day are prevented just by showing a handgun."[2]

1,100 murders are prevented every day! Compare that to the 175 children who die from guns each year.[3] So we can get rid of guns and save those 175 children each year, OR in the same year we can keep guns and save well over 400,000! You choose.

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Endnotes

1. Statistics on guns and crime come from Guncite.com, www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html
2. Gunblast.com, www.gunblast.com/Gun_Facts.htm
3. Freakonomics, by Steven D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner, page 150

I personally think everyone should own a gun. What criminal is going to commit a crime when everyone has a gun ready to protect themselves?

Britain doesan't have guns and we rock!

I wish we didn't have guns... because we'd have swords!

any coward and stay away and shoot but a face-to-face showdown with blades? most little turds would run, if I was going to kill someone with a sword I'd be putting my own life is at stake, and if i'd lost i'd give my killer a bit of credit :XD:

and Sniper Rifles... the range of some of them today is.... wel, cheating!
unless of course your the sniper :P

Well if you are going to carry a gun you should have to pass a psycological test first.

Now the best defense I have against thievs are my heightened senses due to my paranoia and my feet, I've only got robbed once, when you are cornered by 3 guys and one of you with a knife pressing on your side, there's nothing you can do, keep your cool, let them take what they want and walk away.

Weapons could be usefull for self defense but there's people that may use them for other purposes sadly.

I think no one under the age of 25 should be allowed to by a gun unless they have permission to buy from the owner. This seems like this would cut down on some Gun issues but, there will still be ways to get guns.

Very true. Especially if you use a Barrett .50 caliber sniper rifle. When you want to be a mile away and still take out the enemy, use a Barrett.

I can agree with psychological tests for gun owners. I also advocate I.Q. tests for drivers. Considering how many stupid people there are driving, we should test these clowns first. If I remember correctly, more people die in car accidents than with guns. Let's be careful out there.

I disagree. I don't see how clubbing other people over the head is more peaceful.

Maybe the criminal would just buy an Uzi, or something like that. An arms race would begin, in which people buy firearms because other people are also owning firearms.

Violence can act as a deterrent, I agree, but not to everyone. Desperation can drive people to extreme deeds. And in that reduced amount of crime, a spike of fatality rates is likely to occur, whether the casualty is the criminal, the victim, or both. That is, I think, hardly a desirable outcome.

How about giving civilians non lethal weapons? Such as tasers and mace. That way, we can defend ourselves without killing everyone.

I suppose that's an improvement over firearms, though I still think that discouraging any sort of weapon is better. A taser or mace can still be used to incapacitate and rob.

True. The big problem is so can many other things: hairspray, walking sticks, box cutters, and even toy guns. Almost anything can be used as a weapon if you look at it a different (usually the wrong) way.

An expert in Martial arts can turn his own hands into lethal weapons... what are you going to do to him... cut his hands off?

There is no way to remove weapons out of the hands of anyone... as almost anything can be turned into one.

YOu can deter it but as long as there are people who want to kill other peopel there will always be violence.

Yes, but the difference of guns from hairspray, walking sticks, bread knives, and even hands: the sole intent of a gun, the purpose for which it is made, is to maim and kill people!

And, true, basic impulses will not be eliminated, but they can do much less damage. For example, a fanatic with a pistol can take out a dozen people. A fanatic with a nuclear bomb can take out a dozen million people.

Stupid? Let me put it this way.

Without guns, chances are you would either be living under:
a) A corrupt, big brother world government.
b) Dust and debris of a fallen civilization.
c) A fascist regime ruling your life.
d) Dead.

Why? Ku'De'Ta? Revolution? Viva la bam? Leaders become corrupt. To the point where the only way to stop them is through guns and violent revolution. Guns are an essential part of life. Peace is irrelevant without the tools to carve and maintain it.
Guns, if they were to literally disappear off the face of the Earth, would mean nothing. Violence would still ensue in some form. Bombs. Hand to hand combat. Swords. Violence is unstoppable. But it can be preventable if you use violence against violence.
Put it this way. Those who break laws set out to control the ownership of firearms manage to get guns anyway. Those who abide by governments gun control laws don't have the weopons needed to defend themselves. As such, they are the ones who get hurt. Gun control is a tool of governments to control the populace. And that isn't some big 'conspiracy.' It's called ensuring that such riots and the like which may occur in a country do not create such havoc. However, these laws are sometimes mis-used by corrupt governments in countries such as Iraq before America invaded it, and other such governments. It is to keep a 'lid' on any possible revolts. Throughout history, this has always been the case. Guns not only maintain a country and ensure that the people are happy and taken care of properly, but defend ones life and belongings. Firearms are absolutely necessary.

Even if you have a gun to protect or kill. No matter what I will alwase label you as a murder!!!!!!

I don't care about what the hell, trying to protect yourself or s**t.

YOU TOOK A PERSON'S LIFE! YOu HAD NO RIGHT!

If you did shoot someone who you THOUGHT was going to kill you, please HOW DO YOU REALLY KNOW HE WAS GOING TO KILL YOU! Don't try to use crappy s**t like THREATHEN AND s**t WHATEVER.

HELLO THERE IS THE POLICE TO HELP YOU! OMG I FORGOT police don't help so I will own a gun and kill whoever gets in my way, BECAUSE I AM PROTECTING MYSELF..

Selfish eh..?

We could never get along. Gun are made for a reason. It keeps the human poplution in control. Some people die and some don't.

Eh... I couldn't quite guess as to whether your post was sarcastic, or serious. So I'll go from the point of view that it was serious.

You seem to have a very headstrong point of view. Let me put it this way.

You're married. You have two children. You're a veteran of war, and served your country well. You have just tucked your two priceless, precious children into bed. You slip on over to the master bedroom. Your wife is there, sleeping. You slip on into bed. However, you hear a car door open. You hear your front door blast open. You peek out the door, and you see a crazed man with a gun come running on up to the bedroom hallway. He kicks open your childrens door. He shoots both of them. Dead. You scream in horror. Your children have just been murdered in cold blood. You begin to cry. You begin to feel pain, and the agony. Your wife wakes up in fright. You think back, to how you were denied a gun license, because your own government thought that it would be wrong to let you have a gun due to the possibility that you might flip out and use the gun unlawfully. You begin to shake. The man hears you. He comes running to the door. He kicks it open, breaking your nose. He shoots you, but not mortally. You lie there, and watch your wife get beaten, and raped. You feel the agony. The man hears sirens. He runs out of the house. If only you had that gun... You could have protected your entire family.

How many times a day does this happen; or similar things? Countless. Hundreds of times a day around the world. Thousands, even.


Now can you really tell me that the man in that story was being selfish, and did not have a right to a gun? Can you really tell me that man did not have a right to a gun? Can you really tell me that if that man had a gun at the time, he could have saved his entire family? His entire life? Can you? See, I have a problem with gun control supporters. You don't think of the consequences of such laws that you support, until you experience such a graphic situation as I posted above. Yes, you might now think, "Okay, it's fine for someone to own a gun in their house, but they shouldn't carry one." Re-read that same story I just typed, however put the scenario out in the woods, or in a park. Get what I'm saying?

Gun laws don't protect anyone. They put those who are innocent at risk.[b/] They are responsible for the deaths of millions every year. Those who abide by the law get hurt. Those who don't ignore the law, and get the guns anyway. Gun laws do [b]absolutely nothing but protect criminals.

By the time the police gets there, it'd be too late probably. You act as if people are trigger-happy and will shoot anything that slightly poses as a threat. Where I came from the police didn't come until after someone was shot. It's too late for that. The police can't babysit everyone so families,singles,and EVERYONE should know how to protect themselves in OTHER ways besides calling 911 all the time. Some people choose security features for their homes, tasers for their pockets...and others carry guns.

I know it's bad but other people WANT to live so they take these percautions to survive in the world. Why should I ALLOW myself to be killed or attacked?

I guess its a human instinct to only think about their survival in life? Eh?

It's not a bad thing really, most people wouldn't care if other people were to die ---->war.. IT"S FOR A GOOD CAUSE YOU KNOW.

So what I should bring a gun everywhere I go and get really self dumb saying that everyone will come and kill me.

Chyeah I know gun are easy to get a hold of and BAM one shot dead. yeah so easy. You wouldn't even have to second think if you were in trouble or not.

Wow nothing like living in a world where everyone thinks they are going to kill each other. Wow what justice is that? it doesnt serve as any justice. It's just people's intinct of only saving themselves.98 percent of the time and the other 2% is for whoever is in their life, if they arent over 18 years old that is.

Uh yea, being sarcatic is one of my uber skills in life =D

It's called self defense, buddy. And if you think that I'm going to let some idiot kill me, you're sadly mistaken. If you think that defending myself is selfish, you need medical help. Are you trying to imply that I should sit back and let someone kill me? Are you saying that it's wrong to defend myself? That by doing so, I'm committing a selfish act? I don't know about you, but I was born American, raised Israeli. And there is no way I'm going to let some peace loving commies take away my right to defend myself. Owning a gun is my right, and I don't care what anyone else says. If someone comes at me, I'm going to defend myself and my family. There is no way I'm going to let anyone tell me otherwise, and how dare you call defending ones self a 'selfish act.' What planet are you from? What media outlet have you been watching? Buddy, we live in a violent world. People are crazed, and commit crimes. That is why you actually see these stories on the news. This is what we call 'murders' and 'criminal acts.' Ever heard of them before? Ever heard of these 'people' shooting innocent people? Hmmm? How dare you call defending myself a criminal act.

You know, I'd just love to see how quickly that opinion of yours would change in a life threatening moment. How quickly would it change? If that gun was the only thing able to protect you, and your family. You know, guns don't always equal saving your own life. It could mean the life of your family. Your wife. Your children. A loved one.

I disagree. From your point of view, does that mean that no one should obey forgery laws, because those who ignore the law profit from fraud? Your argument is unsound.

Eh, no... My point of view is common sense. Let me put it this way. Let's say that you live in, oh... I don't know. The UK. A law was just passed banning guns. All law abiding citizens now do not have guns. Now obviously, this law is an attempt to take guns away from not just law abiding citizens but mainly criminals. What you don't seem to understand is that those criminals will...
1) Obviously not give up their guns.
2) Even if they do, they can smuggle them in anyway.

So now you have criminals with guns, but law abiding citizens without guns to protect themselves from the criminals who now have them.

Get my point?

I don't need a gun to protect me. I need money and a good place to live at with lots of alarms, duh. people choose this easy way of thinking that they are protecting themselves. By ending one's life.

I don't care if they are trying to protect or kill. it's wrong either way, because you had no right to kill someone, take someone's life away. And I dont ever think that it'll happened to me, just because it happened to so many others. I don't need to live my life that everyone out there is going after me and I need a gun 24/7 with me. Sorry I am not that paranoid as you are. I don't need to make my life so depressed and hate the world because so many people are dying and killing themselves. i don't care because I am not one of them and someone is trying to kill me I will run far away =D. I am not a paranoid person like you who lives in fear everyday of my life of everyone and everything. Get real and stop being so scared.

Well duh laws are only there for those who want to obey it. People who don't will do anything for it. And plus I don't think there will be a gun law because they alrdy know, gun cannot disappear no matter how hard they try to make it disappear. So stop dreaming and get back to reality.

Just that what pisses me off the most is that. People don't think when they shoot and out of no where they alwase say it's SELF DEFENSIVE, but really no, their fear got to them and all they wanted to do was get away from that fear and the only way to get that fear away is knowning that they did something to whoever had some into their life or place.

But what if it was just a misunderstanding. Like oh I thought he had a gun on him. or I thought he was going to threathen me or I thought we was going to kill him. Everything is a thought, but is it REALLY THE TRUTH.

All the hell that I am trying to say is that, people who use guns to protect themselves alwase use it the wrong way. They get feared and paranoid and they cannot be controlled. People who shoot a gun never thinks twice about what they are doing. They don't think about what id going to happened because they are too scared and the only way to get rid of it, is to shoot it. Simple as that.

What ever happened to thinking.

Oh my G-d... Yeah, well that's you. If you have the money, that means your very wealthy. Well, it just so happens to be that some of us aren't so wealthy, and can't afford armed guards, body armor, steal plated doors, security cameras and a bullet proof car. So for some of us, a gun is how we protect ourselves from criminals who might, oh... Break into our homes? From terrorists? Even stray animals? Just imagine yourself face to face with someone trying to kill you... Are you honestly going to tell me that you'd think it's 'wrong' to hold a gun back to the person who's trying to rape and kill you, when you're just trying to defend yourself? Are you honestly going to say that's 'selfish?' What the hell about the damn KILLER? Do you think that's selfish?

See, you're running around in circles. Criminals will ALWAYS have guns. You can't EVER get rid of guns. Ever. It's impossible. They'll export them in. Smuggle them in. Whatever. And then the innocent people who follow the laws and don't get the firearms get KILLED because of people like YOU. People die everyday because of ant-gun activists like yourself. I mean, really. How the hell can defending yourself be considered selfish? Where the hell are you from? North Korea?

And by the time someone breaks into your home and all of those fancy shmansy alarms go off and call the police, the person could all ready have ram sacked a large portion of your house, and took a few shots at you and your family so there would be no witnesses. Then what the hell are you going to do, when the persons shooting at you? Then what? Are you going to think to yourself, "Oh, well I'm going to just let him shoot me. I'm just going to die, because it would be selfish to fight back..." What the hell are you on? Selfish? I mean, really. Selfish? What th "e hell about the guy who's trying to kill you? []Selfish?[/b] Yeah, what did ever happen to thinking? Selfish? I mean, come on. Selfish? How can you even say that? How can defending yourself be selfish?

And hell yes you'd better be paranoid. Over a couple thousand people are killed every day, buddy. Even in America, which is probably where you're from... <.< And what if you have an ex who's angry at you, and wants to kill you? The police can't be there 24/7. Gun owners are not paranoid. Your thinking is beyond warped and beyond repair.


See, guns aren't just for self defense. They also aid in revolutions against violent governments. See, you think you live in a perfect world. Well, you don't. We don't. Governments go corrupt. Take a look at Myanmar. Or the Soviet Union. Or the Americas back in the 1700's. Without guns, you'd probably be living under Kim Jung Il now. Or even Adolph Hitler. Governments use gun control as a sad excuse to disarm its citizens so that there's no chance of a revolution against it.

(Repost from the Capital Punishment thread.)

Before this turns into some kind of flame war, be mindful to keep the debate clean and flame free. You can express your opinions, but please, don't get into it so much that you are basically ready to go beat the guy up over it. Please do remember that. I will be watching this thread from now on. Any sort of flaming or baiting from this post on will result in a warning to be handed down and this thread to be spliced.

(New Part of post.)

Now, Owning a firearm is fine and dandy, but use it with common sense. I seen Womo use that word several times. Owning a firearm to protect is basic instinct. Remember, that we were all "Nomads" at one time, at least our ancestors were. Hell, we actually killed for food and defense. It's no different than it is now. Basic survival. So really and truly, it depends on the person.

But this is what I think of it. Guns are long ranged weapons. You can't really get into closed combat with them with 100% accuracy that you would normally get with a sword or hand-to-hand combat. The only thing that increases is the damage and the potential to end up taking the life that you are fighting. Now in the US, if someone trespasses on your property and they are carrying a weapon (usually it's very well seen, etc) then you have justification to shoot, NOT to kill though. Most people do tend to aim at the chest or whatnot. Aim at a spot to know that you are serious. But remember, wait until they actually pull the weapon of choice out. 2 warnings and then injure them enough so you don't feel threatened anymore.

But if the person turns away and walks away and you shoot them, attempted murder. v.v

I agree. However, all bets are off if the person actually enters your house. There is no time to determine if they are armed. A stranger that enters your house uninvited is considered an immediate threat. Some members of the law enforcement community advise shooting the individual after they open the door/window etc but before they enter. Drag them into your house at least part of the way and claim they entered before the shooting. I believe in Texas trespassers can be shot legally.

Shoot to injure. Not shoot to kill as they say. No sense in killing someone over entering your house. Just basically state that since you entered and I feel that you are a threat, you are basically going to get hurt.

The situation really works several different ways. I personally would go Hand-to-Hand combat...not a gun shooting from long range...but like I stated, the closer you are, the more damage you can cause with a firearm.

But people don't think that way when they get feared! No one uses commone sense when they get scared! They dont think about the outcome of it! They will shoot to kill because what they have can be faster then whatever.

I don't care to be weathy or poor and i dont need to like buy things to make me feel safe at home, when I know that I am safe at home. I dont need many locks or bullet proof vest to like be paranoid or something.

I live my lfe carefree. if i die at least I can die happy =D

All they need is one shot and one shot only. Only that is done, damage is done and another life is gone.
But people don't think of it that way, because no one uses commone sense when it comes to a gun! because the only think they think is about

TO KIL OR BE KILLED! like war or something but inside their house instead.

If I dont kill this guy/person he will take everything way from me and prolly kill me and my family at the end and blah blah.. But duh why not just wound that poor f***er so he can't move or something, but noo..

The only part they know is where the heart and head it. BOOM instance death WHOOPY DO.

They dont care who gets hurt or die at least they know that that person is dead or about to reach his death sentence.

Even though I do agree, it works both ways. All in all, it depends on the person.

You don't need a gun license to have a gun in your home.

Oh, of course you do. You need a license, you cannot have been a part in your countries military to own a gun in some places, you cannot have it in certain places, you have to keep it unloaded at all times... I mean, how the hell does the law enforcement expect us to even defend ourselves with all of this? The purpose of a gun is to protect yourself and your family, in the event that anything ever does happen.

Of course they're not going to use common sense if someone breaks into their house, waving a gun. You go into shock. But that would happen in any given situation. See, you're trying to impose your belief that you specifically don't want a firearm to defend yourself, because you think all guns are 'evil little gadgets only used to kill people in cold blood.' Some people think otherwise, and use them properly. These are what we call, 'law abiding citizens.' Those who don't act maturely with a firearm are those that are called, "none-law abiding citizens." These are the citizens that commit crimes. Kill people. Rape people. Burn people. Get where I'm going? Let me give you a good example.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/09/georgia.hiker/index.html
Now, see, that story is about a hiker who was murdered. If she had, say, means of defending herself, as in maybe a firearm, maybe she wouldn't be dead right now? Just think about that.

And owning a firearm isn't 'being paranoid.' It's called protecting your life, if anything ever happened. Let me put it this way. If Pakistan sent out ten thousand nukes at your country, and you were the leader of that country, would you not fire back? Mutual destruction? Would that not be your instinct? Would you not want to try to shoot down the nukes, to save your country? Or might you just think to yourself that, "It's selfish to fight back, I'll just let them destroy my country." Or might you think, "who needs to fight back? What do I care?"

Get what I'm saying? It isn't 'paranoid' to own a gun. It's called protecting your life. And guns aren't just for defending yourself. They're also used for hunting, for an activity,


Just think about this, again. "Law abiding citizens will always follow the law, and if they are told not to get a firearm, they won't. The none-law abiding citizens are never going to follow the law, and will get the gun anyway. In result, it's the law abiding citizens which get hurt more because they can't defend themselves."

Gun control is an easy excuse to disarm the public from revolt, and it's been done since guns were even invented. If gun control laws were put into effect completely, murder rates would skyrocket. Google that. Completely true.